tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC July 5, 2013 2:00pm-3:01pm PDT
it? >> yes, sir. >> if i might, your honor. >> 911, do you need police, fire, or medical? >> maybe both. i'm not sure. there's someone screaming outside. >> what's the address? >> 121122 -- >> sanford? >> yes. >> is it a male or female? >> it sounds like a male. >> and you don't know why? >> i don't know why. i think they are yelling help but i don't know. >> does he look hurt to you? >> i can't see. i don't know what is going on. they are sending. >> does he keep yelling help? >> yes. >> were you able to hear that voice?
>> yes. yes, sir. >> in the background? >> yes. >> you heard, of course, a woman's voice in the foreground, correct? >> yes, sir. >> do you know whose voice that was screaming in the background? >> yes, sir. >> and whose voice was that? >> my son george. >> and are you certain of that? >> because he's my son. >> at this time, your honor, i have no more questions of the witness. >> good afternoon, ma'am. >> good afternoon, mr. de de la rionda. >> miss zimmerman, you heard him yelling out or crying for help but have you just heard him laughing or screaming? >> all of the above. all. >> isn't it true you've never
heard him yelling or crying for help, yelling for help? >> not for help, not in that distinction. >> thank you very much, ma'am. >> if i may? >> yes, you may. >> you've never heard him screaming for his help, have you? >> correct. >> regarding -- >> objection. >> i'll rephrase it. have you ever heard him screaming for his life before this call? >> when i'm sure that's george's voice, the scream is -- is -- i haven't heard him like that before but the anguish that is the scream that he is -- the way that he's screaming, in his cries to me, anguish, fear, i will say terror. >> and is that the anguish, fear, and terror, without
question, of your son's voice? >> yes, sir. >> mrs. zimmerman -- >> yes, i'm sorry. >> were you finished with your answer? >> yes, ma'am. >> may miss zimmerman be excused? >> yes. >> subject to being recalled. >> okay. yes, we will maintain her. >> mrs. zimmerman, you are excused from the courtroom but you may be called back. call your next witness, please. >> jorge maza.
>> raise your right hand. do you solemnly affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you god? >> so help me god. >> you may proceed. >> thank you, your honor. >> good afternoon, sir. >> good afternoon. >> state your name, please. >> my name is jorge maza. >> and your occupation? >> i'm a deputy sheriff with orange county sheriff's office. >> and how long have you been in that position? >> i've been in that position since september 2007. >> consistent from that time through today?
>> yes, sir. >> and before 2007, what type of work did you do? >> i was previously assigned to the courthouse services division between may of 2000 until august 2003. before that i was in the army. i severed the relationship of 26 years and retired with the position of command sergeant major and i felt it was my duty to serve my community. >> and is that why you began service with the orange county sheriff's office? >> yes, sir. >> and in fact, if you weren't on the witness stand and we were maybe a county over, you might be sitting there or standing in the back? >> that is correct. that would be my duty. >> that's the type of work you do? >> yes, sir. >> so i presume that you've sat through more trials than probably anybody else in the courtroom, except for these two individuals, correct? >> i have had my share. >> okay. we bring you here today, though,
not in your capacity as a deputy but jour here because you know george zimmerman, is that correct? >> that is exactly correct. i'm here as an uncle to george zimmerman, not as a deputy of the orange county sheriff's office. >> and then -- how long have you known george zimmerman? >> i have known george zimmerman since october the 5th, 1983, the day he was born. >> okay. were you in the -- you're still back in the army, correct? >> yes, sir. i was stationed at that time i was stationed in puerto rico. deputy assignment in atlanta, georgia. when news arrived that my sister was having labor pains i was in transit and when i was checking in the hotel i got the news that my nephew was born. >> i was going to ask you the connection but you just told us
in your story, you're gladys zimmerman's brother? >> yes, i am. >> and how many other siblings do you and she have? >> she has her older son robert and my niece grace christine, christina. >> and do you and she have any siblings, you and gladys have any siblings? >> my brother mike miguel. >> you are here today because i want to ask you if you've ever had an opportunity to listen to a 911 call that had certain voices in the foreground and then a screaming voice in the background. >> yes, i did. >> i would like you to tell the jury the first time and the circumstances that you heard that call. >> the exact date, i don't remember. it was some time in march of
2012. i am sitting at my computer at home. and the tv in my house is located right behind, if i could, i show you this is my desk and right behind me is my television. when i'm working on the computer, my wife is watching the news and all i heard was the scream, the scream that it came immediately not only did i hear the scream, i felt this scream like my nephew is screaming for his life. it was a moment that i actually live with me every moment that i heard the portion of that because it was the feeling of saying, oh, i heard george. it was george screaming for his life. and i looked at my wife and
said, what are you watching? and she says, i'm watching the news. and i said, but what is the news about? and she said, they are playing the record of the 911 call pertaining to the person screaming. i said, that is george. and i stood up and i looked at the tv and i didn't see anything else but it was just the recording playing at that time. >> this wasn't a situation where somebody played it for you to ask you to identify the voice? >> no, sir. it was not. >> was this just coincidental that it happened to come on tv? >> no, sir. it was not even coincidental. like i said, i was just working on the computer doing exactly i cannot really but that voice hit me and i heard that and the
moment i heard that i felt it inside of my heart. i said, that is george. >> did you even know the tv was addressing your nephew's case? >> no, i did not. >> did your wife tell you about the fact that it was on tv? >> as a matter of fact she did not. >> then -- and i think you mentioned it, what was it that brought you're attention to the tv? >> his voice. the reason why his voice, i have george play with my sons. it is unique the way you recognize your family members when they laugh or when they cry and this was the moment that i recognize george as screaming for help, it was george screaming for help. >> can i have a moment, your
honor? >> yes, you can. >> thank you, your honor. no further questions. >> thank you. cross? >> good afternoon, sir. >> good afternoon, sir. >> the defense team focusing on the 911 tape with the mother of george zimmerman, gladys zimmerman and also her brother which is the uncle of george zimmerman. i'd like to go to joy reid. joy, your thoughts on focusing on the 911 tape and voice recognition and trying to connect that to the emotion of what george zimmerman may have been feeling at the moment. >> absolutely. what you have is the prosecution and the defense both put on the mothers of the two people involved in this conflict. the mother of trayvon martin
saying it was her son. george zimmerman's mother saying that she heard him on the tape. it's two mothers saying the opposite thing. you add jorge maza, it was not made in the presence of attorneys. it was his independent spontaneous reaction hearing it on the television. >> john burris, how effective do you think that was? >> he's a family member so family members have an interest in bias. i don't give it a great deal of weight. you expect it. the fact that it was spontaneously, that doesn't impress me because he wants to hear that. >> let's go back to more testimony of george zimmerman's uncle. >> you're aware that your son was involved in this shooting. you didn't know the facts but you were aware of it, correct? >> you mean my nephew? >> i apologize. your nephew, george zimmerman.
>> yes, sir. >> you're telling the jury you didn't know any of the specific facts right? >> i am a sworn deputy law enforcement officer. if i actually would know any facts, details information provided to me, it would be against my ethics to get involved. >> right. so you on purpose kept out of it? >> yes. >> that was on purpose? >> yes, sir. >> but you knew that he was involved in the shooting. you just didn't know the specifics? >> i didn't know the specifics. >> okay. and you're saying as you heard this on tv, it was the news, correct? >> that is correct. >> and i think you stated your wife was watching the news? >> that is correct, sir. >> and then when you saw it, after hearing it, you saw it, there was something on about george zimmerman case right on the news itself when you saw it? correct? >> before -- before i saw what i
saw, i heard the scream. >> right. >> and that's when i got up and said, that is george. what are you watching? >> right. and then when you saw the tv, it did have the name george zimmerman on there, correct? >> that is correct. >> okay. and i believe you stated that you had heard him playing before with your son? >> yes. >> but you never heard george zimmerman crying out for help, had you? >> not the way i did that way. >> okay. thank you very much, sir. >> any redirect? >> briefly on some of the issues addressed. obviously you're not here as a deputy. do you take your oath to tell the truth seriously? >> i took my oath on 31 may 2000 and up to this day i stand for
my oath to the law of the state of florida. >> so you would not color your testimony to favor your nephew, would you? >> george zimmerman's uncle testifying on the stand. i want to ask lisa bloom, lisa, how credible is he when he says he recognizes the scream and the sound of his nephew, that i felt the scream and that he was screaming for help? how effective is this? >> i think he's very credible because his story is different than the other witnesses who have identified the screamer. his story is, i wasn't even watching tv. my wife was watching tv, i was on the computer, i heard screams and i thought to myself, my god, that's george, that's my nephew george. that's a very different context than someone offering up the tape to a family member saying,
well, who do you think it is? your family member or the other individual? i think he's really effective. overall i think the family members would have two on each side and they probably neutralize each other, ed. >> john burris, your thoughts? >> i agree that he seemed credible. i don't believe that it gets great weight because he's an uncle, he loves his nephew and he wants to hear it. and so i don't give it substantial weight and i don't think a jury will either because they all have an interest in bias. >> i find it interesting that mark o'mara got up and made him say, does he take his oath seriously because sitting here watching this, i'm thinking, you know, this could be a manufactured story. >> right. >> how credible is this. that's why i asked the question. >> the thing that strained credibility for me, he said he was not even in the room. he just hears this on tchl v, he's not even watching, i can
telling from hearing that, that's my nephew. nobody else has heard this tape who has played this tape has been able to definitively decipher what is being said, that sounds a little difficult to believe but that is his story. >> you know, i would say this. you never have to ask the witness, do you take your oath seriously. it's understood that they do. if you do that, then you're raising questions because this person might not be believed. so i think that's an indication that the defense knew that was a problem witness. >> if you're just joining us on msnbc, this is continuing coverage of the george zimmerman trial. the state has rested its case and this is the first defense move by mark o'mara and his team and i find it interesting they go right to the tape. lisa bloom, is this a good start for the defense when they are trying to make their case? >> i think it is because, in my view, the strongest prosecution
witness was sybrina fulton, trayvon martin's mother who testified this morning very confidently that that was trayvon martin's voice on the tape. she was unshakeable in cross-examination and by the end of the day we have the battle of the two mothers, both testifying in a very sober and confident manner that it's their son. they have to cancel each other out. the defense is mindful of the theatrics that they leave the jury with. last weekend it was the photos of trayvon martin and now it's the family members i think leaving the your with the impression of at least that george zimmerman has a strong family that's standing behind him. >> i want to ask john burris again, the fact that trayvon martin's mother was very effective, i mean, i think that's the legal analysis of many people today, would that have prompted the defense to
start with the voice and do you think he may have made a late game strategy change or did you think that he was going to leave this with us the whole time? >> no, he knew she was going to be the last witness, he had reason to believe that she was going to be a good witness. he wanted to neutralize that as soon as possible. i'm not surprised that he did so. a good lawyer would have done that. >> joy, your thoughts? >> i think on a jury with six women on it, you're going to want to put forward moms and five of these jurors are mothers. i think on both sides they want to give the emotional content of their case out and to do that you put on the moms. so i think both did so to have a good effect for their side. >> msnbc kerry sanders is joining us from outside the courtroom where he's been monitoring developments. kerry, what can you tell us on the heel of the defense's motion for acquittal was denied? >> it would have been a remarkable decision for the
judge to do so. in the state of florida, judges are elected and for a judge to take it out of the hands of a jury could very well imperil the judge's future sitting on the bench. so i'm not sure, despite the hour and a half argument to the judge, that anybody really expected that judge nelson was going to make a directed verdict in this case. one thing i think is important to note is we are listening to the experts who have a complete understanding of how to read witnesses. the one thing to remember is that everybody in the nation who is paying attention to this is watching it on television with a camera that is zoomed in on the jury box but the jurors are not much waing th watching this on tv. the jury box is looking over at that, at times talking directly to the lawyers and i think the things to remember is a different dynamic and people can tend to read things into what they are seeing on tv that you
may not see yourself in the courtroom. ed? >> all right. the trial, we're told now, has been adjourned until monday. the defense has begun its portion of the case of defending george zimmerman. the state has rested its case. i'm joined by joy reid, lisa bloom, and john burris. we'll have more continuing coverage and analysis of the george zimmerman trial from sanford, florida, here on msnbc right after this. i love to eat. i love hanging out with my friends. i have a great fit with my dentures. i love kiwis.
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you've been watching msnbc's live coverage of the george zimmerman trial. i'm ed schultz from new orleans, louisiana. we've been keeping a close eye on the courtroom in florida where the judge has just denied the defendants's request to acquit george zimmerman. the judge decided the zimmerman trial will continue. george zimmerman is charged with second-degree murder. earlier today, trayvon martin's mother took the stand for the first time, sybrina fulton testified she was certain it was her son's voice screaming on a
controversial 911 call. >> can you hear him yelling for help? >> yes. >> there are gunshots. >> you just heard gunshots? >> yes. >> ma'am, that screaming or yelling, you recognize that? >> yes. >> and who do you recognize that to be, ma'am? >> trayvon benjamin martin. >> the defense tried to get trayvon martin's mother to concede that while she wanted to believe the voice was her son's, even though it might not have been. >> you certainly would hope that your son trayvon martin did nothing that could have led to his own death, correct? >> what was your question again? >> you certainly hope as a mom, you certainly hope that your son, trayvon martin, would not have done anything that would
have led to his own death, correct? >> what i hope for is that this would never have happened and he would still be here. that's my hope. >> absolutely. and now dealing with the reality that he's no longer here, it's certainly your hope as a mom, hold out hope as long as you can, that trayvon martin was in no way responsible for his own death, correct? >> i don't believe he was. >> i know. that's the hope you continue, correct? >> i don't understand what you're trying to ask me. >> the jury also heard testimony from trayvon martin's older brother, jahvaris fulton, about who might have been screaming on that 911 call. but for the rest of the afternoon, both sides questioned the medical examiner who performed the autopsy on trayvon martin at one point the medical examiner said trayvon martin experienced pain after the gunshot and might have lived one
to ten minutes after he was shot in the heart. >> it is my opinion that he was still alive, he was still in pain, he was still suffering, from my experience, another autopsy we did three weeks ago, i don't believe he can move after shot. >> trayvon martin's family was in the gallery today but trayvon's mother was noticeably absent during the part of the medical examiner's testimony that included detail autopsy photographs. let's go back to criminal defense attorney john burris, joy reid of the grio and msnbc legal analyst lisa bloom. great to have all of you with us. it's been a very eventful day. let's go back to the testimony of sybrina fulton. how effective was she?
>>. >> she was character evidence for your oh son and her other son because it gave the imprint that trayvon martin came from, these were good people, college educated, worked every day and tried to better their lives. so anybody that had any view that he was some bad kid out there, he didn't come from bad stock and the mother and son typified that. >> joy, she was not in the courtroom when the medical examiner was giving detailed testimony with photographs. does this play on a jury understanding just what it might be like to lose a son at any time in life? >> yeah. absolutely. the family members of the victim in a crime like this are you a lowed to be in the courtroom and it's good to be there because it humanizes the victim, but of course, sybrina fulton, a very strong person, she's able to sit through and listen, she listened
to the 911 call, you can see her blinking very rapidly, you could see that it was difficult but she manages to hold it together. there are some times she can't stay in the courtroom. i want to go back to another question you asked before. the construction of the question that she was asked by mark o'mara, as a mom myself, i found it odd that the idea of a mom your son didn't do anything to cause his own death. sybrina's position, what she wants is for those tapes not to exist. what you want is for your son not to be dead. mark o'mara gave her an opportunity to increase her own credibility and to make her testimony more firm because i thought her answer was pretty much what a mom would say. >> lisa bloom, your thoughts on that. how did sybrina fulton do today when she was being questioned by mark o'mara? >> i think she did very well. i think she was the best prosecution. she was followed by the worse
witness for the prosecution, the medical examiner. there's no question that sybrina fulton has not only sat and listened to this entire trial so far and all of the excruciating testimony about the death of her son and how he was shot and killed and the medical testimony and -- it just has to be horrific and then she took the stand and did what she had to do. i think the jury may have wished that they could have heard more from her. identifying trayvon martin on that 911 call. ed? >> all right. lisa, you had a -- you struggled today with the testimony of the fed cal examiner? take us down that road. >> yeah. struggle, to put it mildly. this is a professional witness. this is what he does for a living, at least in part. he's testified at least 20 times before, he's done hundreds of autopsies, and this is a witness who was condescending, sassing
back and forth with the attorneys and despite being admonished by the judge. his obligation is to the answer the questions. i thought it was extraordinary. i've seen a lot of medical examiners testify and this one i'd be surprised if he doesn't go back to his office and get a little talking to about the way that he handled himself. >> john burris, you follow up on that. your thoughts? >> i had a real problem with him. he testified that he's never been subject to cross-examination before. generally you don't have these problems with medical examiners unless there's a real issue. here there wasn't that problem but there were issues. that is, how long did he live? did he live? or could he talk? could he move? those are significant issues and trayvon after he was shot, how much time because it goes to the
defense's argument that he did some movements, he did some talking. and he shouldn't have had his notes from front of him. >> how would you expect that to play with the jury, john, how trayvon martin, per the testimony of the medical examiner, suffered. >> it gives arguments for the defense to make. george zimmerman said he made some statements and acted as if he made movements around that he could voluntarily make movements. the doctors suggested no he really couldn't but at the same time he thought maybe he could have and then he talked about statements that wouldn't have been made but maybe he could have. and so i thought at least he gave the defense something to argue. i don't think it's substantial because everybody would believe you get shot in the heart, that's it. and so the claim that he made these statements or these movements, what i was disturbed
about is that george zimmerman made no effort to provide any kind of assistance to this kid after he had shot him in the heart. >> yeah. well, as a layperson, you hear someone get shot in the heart, you think it's instant death and i think this is information that comes out to the public today that would make them feel a great deal of compassion beyond for trayvon martin. joy? >> he talked about him being in pain. that is potentially emotional testimony but i'm with john on the confusion about the amount of time that trayvon martin lived. the police were there in a matter of minutes. officer smith said he tried to revive trayvon martin and it was unsuccessful. they did an attempt to revive him and there's question about where trayvon's hands were positioned. he was found his hands underneath his body but george zimmerman told police and prosecutors that he spread trayvon martin's hands out and pinned him down. so the question of whether or not he was alive long enough to
move his hands from that position, if they were in that position, back under his body, is actually relevant. >> john, i just don't see mark o'mara really playing to the jury. i don't sense much connection. >> well, he is. he is. he's a smart lawyer. what he's doing is just making little points. >> okay. >> just like we saw the sort of closing argument for the motion. a lot of these points he has tied up and tied in with various witnesses. the big concern, though, is around rachel jeantel. that goes directly to the issue of whether george zimmerman was following, pursing, making contact. and so they are going to try to undermine her as much as possible with the lawyer and other statements. but i don't think they are going to be successful because she didn't do anything more than anybody else did, clarify when asked a question she answered the question. they said the same thing about zimmerman and good. she's got a bad rap, unjustifiably so, by giving out
additional information as she was asked questions. >> a big day of developments in the george zimmerman trial and we'll have more on the trial coming up after this. stay tuned. you're watching msnbc. ♪ take me into your darkest hour ♪ ♪ and i'll never desert you ♪ ♪ i'll stand by you yeaaaah! yeah. so that's our loyalty program. you're automatically enrolled, and the longer you stay, the more rewards you get. great! oh! ♪ i'll stand by you ♪ won't let nobody hurt you ♪ isn't there a simpler way to explain the loyalty program? yes. standing by you from day one. now, that's progressive.
there are two people involved here. one of them is dead and the other one is a liar. >> as the charge for acquittal came strong from the defense and, of course, it was denied. let's go to msnbc's kerry sanders who is outside the courthouse. that was expected but it was 90 minutes of detail and drama in
this case. >> reporter: and it was also a foreshadow of where the defense is going to go as they present their case, which they have now started to do. defense attorney mark o'mara has been rather talkative since the early changes of this case when he assumed the responsibilities of being the defense attorney and he's going to be holding a news conference here shortly. one of the questions that should be asked is, now that the prosecution has finished its case, will george zimmerman take the stand in his own defense? in florida, that is not a decision that's made by the defense attorneys. it's made by george zimmerman himself. now, he consults with his attorneys, they give him advice but george zimmerman is ultimately the one who makes that decision and we have seen, especially in the early days of this investigation, that he is independent minded and has a tendency to sometimes make decisions that perhaps those around him were not counselling him to do, specifically when he set up web pages to collect some money and there was some issues
about money going back and forth within the family. so the attorney, mark o'mara, has said that from the beginning no decision has been made about whether george zimmerman will take the stand in his own defense. perhaps when he comes to the podium and talks to us and answers some questions, perhaps one of those questions will be just that and we'll hear what the answer is. it may be that still no decision has been made. >> kerry, what is your sense of folks down there in florida? do you think george zimmerman would take the stand? because, of course, he is saying it was all in self-defense and he possibly could get on the stand and make a very emotional case that he had no other recourse but to defend himself. your thoughts? >> well, what you wind up with is perhaps satisfying an ego to do that but as all defense attorneys will tell you, the legal experts that we have joining us now, you then open yourself up to the prosecution to a tremendous barrage of intense questions.
remember, these prosecutors are not green. these are veterans. they know what they are doing in the courtroom and that would be a huge opportunity potentially for them to ask some very pointed, direct questions of george zimmerman. that said, as i said, the defense attorney mark o'mara says no decision has been made. it has not been ruled out and again ultimately that decision is left up to george zimmerman himself. i think that we're going to see here that the jurors are now sequestered, as you know. that means they don't get a chance to go home. they leave the courthouse here, they are taken in a van, they go to their hotel, they spend time together. the jurors, remember, by the rules are not able to talk about any of the evidence that they've heard at the beginning all the way through till now so they are suggesting this themselves. they have certainly gotten to know each other in ways that, you know, people locked in a room and having to spend a lot of time together but at this point, as we're heading into the third week of this, it is just a natural feeling. in fact, i've spoken to some
other jurors that have been sequestered in other cases, it's a natural feeling, sensing, okay, this is moving on to the point where i want to see this wrap up. so that's a calculation that the defense must make. were the prosecution witnesses that were asked some questions by the defense and gave what many of our legal analysts said were answers that may have raised reasonable doubt? were they enough so that mark o'mara and don west can suggest even though we have a long list of witnesses, we don't have to call all of those witnesses. i suspect over the weekend they'll be making that calculation and going through the list of witnesses, who is going to make the point that they make, perhaps we saw an indication of how they are going to move along rather quickly because we saw george zimmerman's mother and then the uncle take the stand in very brief fashion. >> kerry sanders reporting for us down in florida.
thank you, kerry. lisa bloom, what kind of conversations are going to take place this weekend with mark o'mara and george zimmerman. do you think they've made a decision as to whether george zimmerman is going to take the stand or not? >> most attorneys would say, george, you are not taking the stand. there is no benefit to be gained from it. the jury has already heard your story, repeatedly, including on videotape, and you'll be subjected to a very difficult cross-examination where you can get further tied up in knots. but kerry sanders is right, this is an unusual defendant. this is a defendant who voluntarily went to the police immediately, wrote out a long handwritten statement, then submitted to an audiotaped interview, then came back the next day and did a lengthy videotape interview. so this is a man who likes to talk and talk to law enforcement about the story and this may be somebody itching to get into that witness box and talk to the jury and there are some questions that he has not answered in any of his previous statements like, why do you seem
so cold? why did you tell sean ha ncnnit that it was god's plan? why did you say that your goal was to hunt fugitives? i know he may have answers to some of this and he may be very upset at leaving these questions unanswered. bottom line is, it's his decision. if i'm his attorney, i'm advising him against it but ultimately i'm going to say, george, look, this is your life, your decision. ed? >> thank you, lisa. john, do you think he's just too toxic to put on the stand with what she was just saying about some of the past statements? >> i think that part is true but i also think this. mark, excuse me. mark o'mara is making a statement. we want to go to that live right now. >> everyone in the zimmerman family knows that that was george zimmerman screaming. there will be a lot of other evidence as well. we'll present the case. we're just getting started. >> will it go on the same day that the martin family got on
the stand. >> i wasn't sure how and when the state was going to end their case and i had mine planned out. it's always fluid according to how things go and the witnesses do. i'm happy with the way it worked out. >> got two witnesses done. that's okay. >> why wasn't he here this week? >> why wasn't he here this week or why wasn't he on the stand or -- >> why wasn't he in court at all? why wasn't he -- >> we'll probably bring him in when the timing is right for him as a witness. >> what is the your opinion on the judge's decision to deny -- >> joas are a particular and unique way to look at everything that is out there and weigh it all towards the state's side they get every benefit of every doubt at this state, at this
stage. i respect her ruling. you know, it is what it is. this is what we do. >> how much weight do you believe that the jury will give both mothers regarding their respective testimony that this was their son on the 911 audio? >> i think they will look at both and say that is certainly what that mom hopes happened. >> so it will be a wash? >> you know, i think so. i'm sure that miss fulton has to live her reality with that being trayvon martin screaming. and i'm certain that mrs. zimmerman has to live her reality that that was definitely george zimmerman screaming. and we have to be -- treat them as the grieving parents and i'm not going to go beyond why they said what they said. >> how long do you think your case will go? >> you know, this is a nonanswer but a few days. wednesday, thursday, it could go more, according to some rulings that the court still has to make regarding admissibility of
certain evidence but i'm -- i'm enjoying myself so we'll go as long as we need to. >> are you prepared now and why weren't you prepared then? >> wednesday we asked for more time to prepare? i think that was because of depositions that need to be done. there are three or four depositions we still have to take. that's just time. we're here nine hours a day and i leave here and then go get ready for the next day. it doesn't give a lot of time for two or three-hour depositions. i think that's why we asked for additional time. >> are you done with crump? >> no, he's not done yet. >> what is your opinion on the combativeness and on your defense counter? >> you know, i think is he sort of a very literal person. if you ask him, is it a nice day out, i don't think he'll want to give you his opinion. nice is an interpretation. if he asks is this wood, he will say yes. i'm okay with it. that's his personality style. we'll have other experts dealing
with those issues so we'll work through it. >> what do you make of the notes he had? they were obviously contentious. >> i don't think english is his first language so he wants to make sure that his presentation is good. he's walking into a situation where we're litigators and he's a scientist so i think if i was going in to surgery, i'd probably have a book of notes in front of me. >> will the defendant take the stand? >> we haven't made that decision yet. i think i said i have to convince myself first that the state has proven their case beyond a reasonable doubt before i decide how to handle that. so i'm still considering that. they seem to be done now. defense attorney mark o'mara at a press conference following today's developments. i want to go to john burris. john, i guess i would have asked, are you going to put george zimmerman on the stand after what you saw today. that didn't come up. >> that didn't come up. there's no reason for him to put george zimmerman on the stand.
even if he wasn't toxic, his case has already been put in through the various witnesses. notice that the way he argued the case today, he feels very strongly that the second-degree murder case isn't going to be made. he does have some concerns about the reasonableness of it because when you go to reasonable contact you go on to manslaughter. he knows it's out there and doesn't want to go there. i would say, look, you cannot win based on your testimony. there are two statements you've already given. the best thing to do is for me to argue your case for you. >> you and lisa bloom are on the same page with that one. joy reid, we saw mark o'mara talk about without a shadow of a doubt that was george zimmerman's voice. >> and he said live their reality believing it was their son. i think he was also admitting that they cancel each other out. one thing what you are talking about with george zimmerman,
next to him the whole time. he allows all of it to go on. he interrupts a couple of times in the hour, nour and a half of that taped interview. boy, that is all coming up. the killing was god's plan. i think we're going to hear a lot about that in closing argument. that was a statement that george zimmerman made four or five months after the killing when he had time to think and
with. >> that's when jeantel's testimony becomes important. that's why the defense is going to do all they can next week to undermine her credibility. because she is only person that says not only was trayvon afraid, he was running, trying to get away, and then all of the sudden the guy is back. and that makes him the aggressive person. >> and remember what richard said in his arguments not to dismiss the case, he said following someone is not something you do with benevolent intent. he made the case that the following, the pursuit, the law enforcement-like behavior of
george zimmerman, getting out of the car after saying, you know what? meet me at the clubhouse, no, wait a minute, meet me somewhere else. and continuing to pursue, he says that in and of itself showed malicious intent. >> he viewed him as a suspect. >> lisa bloom, your thoughts on what has just been said here. >> you know, i agree with a lot of what has been said. and sometimes i think we get lost in the details and forget some of the most important facts about this case, which are the simplest, and the facts that we all know. that trayvon martin was an unarmed teenager minding his own business, walking back from a convenience store with a fruit drink and some skittles. i mean, and he was clearly followed by george zimmerman. i think the prosecution has established that. the defense even conceded that in the opening statements. he was told not to follow. he continued to follow. then there was an altercation. i don't think it is clear who started the altercation, but the bottom line is that i think the jury is going to have a lot of sympathy for trayvon martin at the end of this. and they're probably
increasingly disliking george zimmerman, as anyone is, who is following this trial, as we learn more and more, not only about his untruths and his inconsistencies, but some of the really callous statements he made after the shooting. ed? >> okay. thank you, lisa bloom, joy reid, and john burris. i find it very interesting that the defense is saying that zimmerman is very stressed. it seems to me that he is showing the consistent demeanor of no expression. >> no expression. >> throughout all of this. >> john, quickly, your thoughts on all of this. is that coaching? >> i think that's who he is. it's almost he has a detachment from it. he hasn't shown any emotions around he killed this person and all the testimony that has come in. i think he is a very pious person in his own mind. >> yeah. >> that he really feels that he is above all of this. and that's what happened. >> quickly, your thoughts. >> really, when you listen to all the 911 calls that he made all the way through, they're always very flat. his demeanor is very flat.
his presentation in court, very flat. you put that guy on the stand, if he doesn't show some humanity and emotion, that's very bad. >> thanks for your time tonight. this has been continuing coverage of the george zimmerman trial. i'm ed schultz. stay tuned. you're watching msnbc. out there owning it.
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